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From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Sep 30 2011, 7:04 AM EDT
So, we know that they want to produce T5:- they bought the rights; - they tried to hire a director; - they want to do all before 2018. All these are facts. Other facts are: - they DON'T have a script (nor a plot!); - they DON'T have a director; - they DON'T want another disaster (any reference to existing movies named "t4" are merely occasional). We discussed many times that writing a TSCC continuation as a movie is impossible: - it CAN'T be for people that know the show, since we're very few compared to the franchise expectancies; - it CAN'T be for everyone (à la Serenity, as many of you could identify it), it will probably delude us, give nothing to other viewers and be a flop (and another hard strike for the franchise). And what if T5 was a movie going from T3's end (OK, I know many of you hate it, but this is a movie for masses, so they'll want to connect to it) to TSCC: a prequel? T3 ends with the Judgment Day, while TSCC begins in present days with the arrive of Cameron who has already lived that time. By the show we know very few about some future character (adult John, Cameron's and Derek's past), and only by their words (but we know Cameron lies) / flashbacks. T5 could tell us that part: OUR character's past. This will answer many questions we have about the show (how many discussion have we had about "I think that character comes from..."?), so it will add part of S3's story. On the other hand, everyone can view it and it will increase curiosity about the show, and, I hope, make more new people to watch it. IF this will happen, T6 will be the real TSCC continuation, in a post BtR scenario Obviously, Josh Friedman must write it with all his original staff (writers and actors). Do you find this valuable?
Keyword tags:
Franchise
JF
Josh Friedman
Prequel
T3
T5
Terminator 5
TSCC continuation
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1. From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Sep 30 2011, 7:26 AM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 30 2011, 8:13 AM EDT
Now, try to figure a plot:- Time has elapsed since the end of T3, John is in a work camp with Kyle, Derek and "your beloved" Kate. Kyle helps them to evade. This gives many action and shows characters. - Previous scene was only a flashback, now we're in the future war (say around 2022), where John has 2 kids: they're planning a mission. - the mission occur and a semi-destroyed endo is brought back: cause John's experiences in T2, he asks the greatest technicians he has to secretly study it. The technicians are Mr. Weaver (who's alive in this timeline) and his daughter. - Discovering the secret, some resistance members begins a small rebellion, that degenerates: Kate and her kids die in an explosion when a grenade is accidentally activated during a small fight. - John becomes a lonely man, but continues to be with his trusted men (including Kyle, Derek and the Weaver). - Working with them he's eventually able to reprogram the chips, and the Topanga Canyon battle happens (action, a lot of endos and other 3D special effects for people who payed the ticket for that). - We'll now see Cameron's arrival and capture and observe John being with her. I don't know what else to add, everything we add here will solve some unanswered questions abut the show, somehow ruining the experience with it for those that will watch it after this new movie, egotistically, I could think that this is not our business... Do you find this valuable? |
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2. From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Sep 30 2011, 7:27 AM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 30 2011, 8:15 AM EDT
Why should WB want to do this?- this is probably the best they could do with the right they have: even if they weren't payed for this (but they will), they will earn a lot of money; - if the movie increases curiosity about the show, TSCC will be syndicated again, all around the world = money for WB! - New DVD sales for S1 and S2 = money for WB! - Since they own the rights about their original characters, they'll get a lot of money from the merchandise of T5 objects (action figures, T-shirts, etc). Again, money for WB! - They could eventually co-produce T6 (and maybe T7, if the story is too long) as a pure TSCC continuation. A LOT OF money for WB! Why should Ellison accept this? - Why not? It's a script, so that's what she wants. - JF's name will rise interest in those who know him. - Forums will be full of positive comments about JF, convincing unsettled people to go to cinema: after T4's experience, this is a very good point. Do you find this valuable? |
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AndyTGD |
3. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Sep 30 2011, 10:40 AM EDT
"Why should WB want to do this?Hmm, I think that this is highly improbable. If there is going to be a Terminator movie, it'll probably be a straight sequel to T4 or a complete reboot of some kind. It just seems extremely unlikely that they would go back to the interim between T3 & 4. It could be messy and the franchise is already complicated enough. As for introducing T:SCC characters into T-Moviedom, I really can't see that happening TBH. They may attempt to take elements from T:SCC, re-write them and integrate them into T5, even bringing over character types and cameo references. But, we'll probably never see the actual T:SCC-verse characters or actors involved in a big screen continuation. I can easily see them taking ideas like a rival AI to Skynet or a group of rebel machines and assimilating them into T5 - or hell, even a machine-love-interest for John ala Jameron. But it just won't be something designed to appease fans of T:SCC. I think - although I could always be wrong - that "the powers that be" will probably attempt to draw a line under T:SCC and maybe T4 and continue afresh. Do you find this valuable? |
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MMM.MIND |
4. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Sep 30 2011, 10:46 AM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 30 2011, 10:47 AM EDT
"Why should WB want to do this?Nice idea however WB and Ellison have to make a deal to share money... No easy Ellison could go alone and make T5, T6 without share money but TSCC plot is good + TSCC have a nice fan base in Japan, USA....+ They have a lot of episodes and data t of TSCC to make a great movie (What work and what does not work) No easy Do you find this valuable? |
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5. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Sep 30 2011, 11:06 AM EDT
"1. Hmm, I think that this is highly improbable. If there is going to be a Terminator movie, it'll probably be a straight sequel to T4 or a complete reboot of some kind. It just seems extremely unlikely that they would go back to the interim between T3 & 4. It could be messy and the franchise is already complicated enough.1. I don't think that they will consider T4 at all. T4 is what caused a bankrupt, and usually they are superstitious about this :P Also, T4 is after T1, not after T3, and this is another good reason to ignore that mess up... 2. WB will never allow to simply "take elements", otherwise the small amount of the franchise they own will be worth less than nothing: they'll use it as part of TSCC or will not allow Ellison to use it. I figure this already happened when they removed TSCC references from T4. 3. Why not? They urge to have e script and a director: economically and strategically that was a good move. Anyway, I've never talked about "continuation", we know it's impossible, I'm thinking about a prequel (something that is for all). 4. If they had time, maybe, but they need it ASAP, so the best way is to ask someone who could write a good plot in very few time to do that. The only problem is WB: if they think this is good(= money and the original TSCC not ruined), they will agree (that's their business, after all) 5. I hope (and am almost sure) they'll draw a line OVER t4 and delete it! Do you find this valuable? |
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6. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Sep 30 2011, 11:12 AM EDT
"Nice ideaBy now, "No easy" is better that "our director left", for Ellison, and than "it's in a safe waiting for we don't know what" (but also than "take it and ruin it with a stupid continuation"), for WB. I personally think it's possible and good for all... but maybe this is only my hope for something more from JF talking... Do you find this valuable? |
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AndyTGD |
7. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Sep 30 2011, 12:15 PM EDT
"1. Also, T4 is after T1, not after T3, and this is another good reason to ignore that mess up...1) I'm not sure if I am understanding you correctly, are you saying that T4 is the successor to T1, rather than T3? Because it really was a proper sequel to T3 in everything but tone. The characters, Terminator design (nuclear fuel cells anyone?), following off where the last movie ended etc were all carried over from T3. The only thing which seems to have been borrowed from T1 was the notion of using Cyberdyne again. 2) Ah sure, they won't be able to use elements in the sense that they won't be able to, say, add a character called "Cameron" without going through WB. But they could (someone correct me if I'm wrong with this) create a generic female Terminator as a love interest for John. Likewise, they could create a group of rebel machines and integrate that into the plot. 3) Because I think the people involved will probably want to forget T:SCC (and probably T4). To the general public etc., T:SCC was a failure. An experiment which failed to grab people. Imo, the studios will probably see no real reason to involve T:SCC with T5. For most of the movie-going public, Terminator, as a film franchise, involves Arnie, car chases, guns and robots which look like skeletons. Seriously, that's all it is to most people, so they're probably going to go down the predictable path of reworking those core areas. Do you find this valuable? |
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8. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Sep 30 2011, 3:24 PM EDT
"1) I'm not sure if I am understanding you correctly, are you saying that T4 is the successor to T1, rather than T3? Because it really was a proper sequel to T3 in everything but tone. The characters, Terminator design (nuclear fuel cells anyone?), following off where the last movie ended etc were all carried over from T3. The only thing which seems to have been borrowed from T1 was the notion of using Cyberdyne again.1. OK, I don't know if t4's writers have never really thought too much about this, but actually t4 is set after T1 using some infos from T3. You talk about characters: I figure you're talking about Kate, but, if you remember John's words in T3, he said he had met her years before if Uncle Bob hadn't arrived. Nuclear fuel cells: I thought that was a dubbing mistake, since in the novel they're not nuclear. Anyway, also in T2 the cell lasts 120years, so they've always been nuclear. Terminators design has never been changed. What makes many people believe that t4 is after T1 is that John doesn't seem to have never seen a "friendly" Terminator, so it can't be after T2 (and so T3). And you're right about Cyberdyne: in T2 it's destroyed and in T3 it doesn't exist (Skynet is built by the army, by Kate's father, not by a private company). 2a. Yes 2b. There are two reasons to avoid this: - critics will hardly attack them; - ...if Apple has been able to accuse MS for copying the interface (not the code!), then be sure that WB could anyway accuse them of plagiarism in court and maybe delay T5's projections! They won't want this! 3. TSCC failed as a TV show, because it was serialized: for movies they WANT something of serialized, something that will hold people waiting for more. Think to movies like Kill Bill, Lord of the rings, Twilight, Herry Potter, or other serialized ones: they went better right because the serialization made many viewers to continue to think to them and to demand for more. In cinema world this is good, also for merchandise (the more people think to a movie, more gadgets are sold). On the contrary on TV this has the big problem that you can't acquire new viewers and that you can easily lose those who miss some episodes: in big screen world this is not a problem, cause people have usually two years to watch what they missed, and also what they missed is only a single movie, not many episodes. Word-of-mouth, friends, TV: they'll probably let you watch a movie and then want to go to cinema for its sequel. 4. Always give the viewers what they want to view. You're right about special effects, explosions and so on, but remember that we haven't had many of them in the show not only because, for us, they weren't needed, but also for the costs: I think that JF could be able to write a good story WITH the special effects needed for the average watcher (those to be in the trailer). They're not mutually exclusive. I was talking about TSCC prequel because it was good for us and an almost ready good plot for Ellison... and also economically good for WB. Do you find this valuable? |
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9. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Sep 30 2011, 3:25 PM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 30 2011, 4:00 PM EDT
"."Posted two times: removed Do you find this valuable? |
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t5000 |
10. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Feb 13 2012, 7:27 PM EST
"Yes, that was exactly my idea: one (or more) direct-to-DVD (or online selling) movie(s) made only for us, with a low budget but original writers and cast (I always think that JF moved all to the post-JD future at the end of BTR to cut costs by mainly filming S3 in a cheaper place)."ok you should forget about this happening , I wish they would do it, but I have the feeling tscc has been "buried" for reasons that they will never tell us. one reason is they dont want 2 versions of terminator story. they just want the mainstream big budget movies. so when they are done with those maybe then they would let someone do a tscc movie. only thing is then all the actors will be so much older. and jf and S-3, on part of the show would have dealt with the future scenes and story, there still would have been a present day story, as sarah and ellison were still here in the present. it would have been partly both. and I dont know that future scenes would have been any cheaper to do, quite possibly the opposite and more $ for future scenes. also jf unless he was broke , doesn't want anything to do with tscc, and the powers that be may not want anything to do with him, so unlikely he would be involved if it were to happen. t-5 will be a mainstream movie set in present with chase stuff / story, and a typical terminator movie like t-2. the fact they signed arnold says they want to do that type of movie. also the fact they signed arnold suggests it wont be a reboot. I think they will ignore t-4 and possibly T-3 and do a story based on continuing from T-2. however if they do that it could confuse some people. Do you find this valuable? |
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11. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Feb 15 2012, 7:24 PM EST
""Yes, that was exactly my idea: one (or more) direct-to-DVD (or online selling) movie(s) made only for us, with a low budget but original writers and cast (I always think that JF moved all to the post-JD future at the end of BTR to cut costs by mainly filming S3 in a cheaper place)."315 is back, it seems... As I and other ones already replied you, TSCC is a spin-off, and it has too few followers to damage a new movie. Of course there must be some scenes in present day... but you could also assume that Sarah and Ellison moved to another place (Nicaragua or Mexico again?) so, again, they could shoot in another cheaper place. For the costs, we were discussing them in the news thread few days ago: read other user's opinion, because there are some that know costs much better than me (I can only figure that JF moved the plot to the future to reduce costs). They signed Arnold for T5 because Arnold = money. Do you find this valuable? |
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The1Russter |
12. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Feb 15 2012, 9:28 PM EST
I don't know if this will help or hurt the current discussion, but there are two points that I'd like to make.1)According to the first synopsis I read for what Sarah Connor Chronicles was going to be about, it was going to tell us the story of John and Sarah Connor between the events of T2 and T3. Now whether that data was factual or not I can't say, but at any rate, Josh Friedman gave us one hell of a story that from its inception was not going to tie into T3, unless his idea was that when John returned to the present after the future events in season 3 it was to a point in time a few years before T3 hence his staying off the grid, and so on, and so forth to explain continuity issues, but I digress. 2)The first draft of T:Salvation was written by [I forget the name] someone who sat in on the early writer's meetings for TSCC. The first draft of T4's script was originally connected to what JF and his team of writer's had in mind for TSCC, either directly or by sharing the same theme. I do know that the little girl Star in T:S was in the first draft the child Allison who would one day be the woman Skynet based Cameron on. If that early draft was used for the moive, then there would have been a link between the series and the films. Unfortunately, McG, Bale, and a team of script doctors gave us T:Disaster instead. The second chance for tying together film and TV series died before it had a chance. Continued.... Do you find this valuable? |
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The1Russter |
13. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Feb 15 2012, 9:29 PM EST
Now I know there is a basis for the two items above, but I can't find the sources, but I think enough people know about it so it won't be dismissed out of hand.What this means for the future of Terminator, and more importantly for TSCC, is that our beloved show is now the bastard child of the franchise. Now personally, I believe there is room for multiple timelines. TSCC could continue in book, graphic novel, dvd movies, etc and feature films could continue in their own timeline without either crossing paths. Every film has launched a series of novels, each setting a precedence for a new timeline without problems for the fans seeing the next film. so there should be no problem for TSCC occupying its own niche amongst the fans and in the franchise. Only through ignorance and arrogance on the part of those involved in the franchise up to now is there no link between TSCC and the feature films other than T1 and T2 from which both branch off. At this stage there is still a chance for both to coexist or both be part of the same story if someone with balls and imagination stands up and fights for TSCC and gives us a story that either links the latter films to TSCC, or gives us a feature film continuing on from TSCC that makes T3 and T4 look like the rubbish they were. Do you find this valuable? |
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14. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Feb 16 2012, 10:38 AM EST
| Post edited: Feb 16 2012, 10:40 AM EST
"I don't know if this will help or hurt the current discussion, but there are two points that I'd like to make.1. Whichever was the original idea, the title remains wrong: it more suggests a show about the story of Sarah between T1 and T2... Whichever was the original idea, the result remains excellent... but also in "work in progress"... About T3, as I wrote, some elements were present in TSCC, but more about Skynet. I figure JF was telling us a story set in a different timeline but having some unmodified elements. Also about our characters, Sarah's cancer was from T3. Maybe JF's idea was somehow the one I suggested in this thread, so that T3 timeline was Cameron's timeline (and so she knew about Sarah's cancer), while some other things were happening in a similar way, but not in the same way... 2. I don't know why they removed the connections, but, more than thinking that t4 writers did, I figure that WB wanted. Maybe WB was asking too many moneys, or maybe they thought it could have been negative for the show (a premature ending?), I don't know... Someone could suggest that t4 producers removed the connections because TSCC was falling, but I don't think they'd have had the time to do this: since T4 was ready 3 months after the end of TSCC, I figure they changed things much before that date... but I could be wrong, maybe they simply re-dubbed some audio parts to change the name. Did you read the novel? At the very end (that doesn't include the stupid suicidal surgery!) Star is suggested to be someone else... T4... I would know the original plot, before the whimsical kid ruined it... Oh, yes, the whimsical kid, because I couldn't blame McG or the writers, not knowing the original plot, but, since I liked the parts without bale, although I'm not suggesting that t4'd have been a masterwork without him (it contains other kind of mistakes), I'm absolutely sure it'd have been much better than it is. Do you find this valuable? |
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15. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Feb 16 2012, 11:15 AM EST
| Post edited: Feb 16 2012, 11:17 AM EST
"Now I know there is a basis for the two items above, but I can't find the sources, but I think enough people know about it so it won't be dismissed out of hand.Interesting. What happens when the bastard child is better than the other ones? I hope Megan Ellison will answer us to this :) someone with balls and imagination stands up and fights for TSCC you say, but I don't think they must be the same person. While we know very well who can (and should!) be the second, the one(s) with balls should be us: that's not because we should prove we're strong, or that we could protest to the end of time; it's not because they should fear us expecting reactions (I mean commercial reactions, not violent ones)... it's mainly to prove them how many we are and how much we still care TSCC and how much we could support a new installment...probably much more than how much other Terminator fans could expect by T5 after T4... Do you find this valuable? |
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morded |
16. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Feb 16 2012, 12:34 PM EST
I can't find anything that says they were gonna have Allison in T4 in any version of it, or even have a tie in with tscc at all. I've been looking for about an hour. I found a thread on the redwiki, but it's all just talk, there is no links for anything. Seems like someone was just speculating. This is just my opinion, but as for tscc coming back, I just don't see it. The movie has no script and honestly, it has nothing yet. So it will take years for this movie to be made and released, and by that time, they're not gonna care about tscc anyway. The actors are going to get too old to play their characters and without the original cast, it's not a movie I would watch anyway.
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17. RE: From T3 to T5: JF wanted!
Feb 16 2012, 6:20 PM EST
"I can't find anything that says they were gonna have Allison in T4 in any version of it, or even have a tie in with tscc at all. I've been looking for about an hour. I found a thread on the redwiki, but it's all just talk, there is no links for anything. Seems like someone was just speculating.1. If for "the movie" you mean T5, forget it: in 2018 the rights will return to James Cameron, and Annapurna wants to release at least two movies before that date. That's why I say that T5 as a prequel for TSCC would be an excellent way to very quickly have a quality script for T5 (a script that could be understood by everyone, being a prequel) 2. :(( Do you find this valuable? |