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Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 14 2012, 9:30 PM EST
| Post edited: Jan 15 2012, 9:58 PM EST
So, since in another thread we were talking about mutants, and since in the thread RDO opened a few months ago about "what character we would be" we also talked about them, I was thinking what would you think viewing an hybrid in a new move or reading about such argument in a fanfiction.IMO, as I said, the idea is absolutely good, and, if I really was in the post-JD scenario, I would be the first to think about them... But, cause previous experiences in movies that should not even considered part of the franchise, many could find a new hybrid as a bad idea, simply cause the association of the two ideas... cause the hybrid could remember the watcher/reader such "movie". I have to repeat here that I liked the idea, or better still, to me it wasn't original at all... I also consider Marcus a well done character, but this is irrelevant, since each character is different. OK, I know, the cybernetic improvement of a human can surely change his/her personality, cause the feeling of omnipotence, the absence of pain and so on... but this could be part of the story. I'm asking you two questions: if you could like the idea in a Terminator story in general, AND if you could like the idea despite it reminds t4. And I would also know your ideas about... EDIT: Links fixed. Do you find this valuable?
Keyword tags:
Cyborg
Hybrid
mechanical improvement
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morded |
1. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 15 2012, 5:54 PM EST
| Post edited: Jan 15 2012, 6:07 PM EST
I'm a big fan of hybrid Terminators. My favorite being the I-950s from the T2 Infiltrator books, but I'm also a fan of Marcus. I have to say that I'm kinda confused about your question, I don't really know what you me
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I.Join |
2. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 15 2012, 9:51 PM EST
"I'm a big fan of hybrid Terminators. My favorite being the I-950s from the T2 Infiltrator books, but I'm also a fan of Marcus. I have to say that I'm kinda confused about your question, I don't really know what you me"I haven't read the books, I'll find them and read them. What's the style (I'm not so interested if they are mainly action, but if they contain interesting ideas, I do) My main question is: could the bad result of t4 have ruined the idea of an Hybrid? I mean, I personally like the idea and could like to have another one in a future movie (made by the humans, this time!!!), but I wouldn't be surprised if someone, associating (maybe subconsciously) the idea of the hybrid to t4, would dislike the whole opera cause the hybrid. (OT note about Marcus: I really liked the character, but I can't see a real reason for Skynet to produce him... but probably the reason was in the original plot, the one bale destroyed... t4 could have been a decent/good movie without bale) Do you find this valuable? |
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kaotic |
3. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 15 2012, 10:01 PM EST
"I haven't read the books, I'll find them and read them. What's the style (I'm not so interested if they are mainly action, but if they contain interesting ideas, I do)It's been a while since I've read Infiltrator series, but from what I remember there wasn't much action (I might be wrong and Morded can correct me). The books have some really good ideas and the first two books are really fun. Do you find this valuable? |
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sumofme |
4. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 16 2012, 1:20 PM EST
"I haven't read the books, I'll find them and read them. What's the style (I'm not so interested if they are mainly action, but if they contain interesting ideas, I do)I don't think T4 ruined hybirds at all. I love the hybird concept and would like to see more stuff like that. Do you find this valuable? |
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I.Join |
5. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 16 2012, 6:51 PM EST
"It's been a while since I've read Infiltrator series, but from what I remember there wasn't much action (I might be wrong and Morded can correct me). The books have some really good ideas and the first two books are really fun.OK, now you confirmed that the I-950 is the same we talked about some weeks ago (I think we were discussing undeveloped fanfiction ideas, someone suggested to have an I-950 following I don't remember which Manhattan project related scientist): I thought I was confusing cause I (wrongly) remembered that the I-950 weren't hybrids but a brainwashed humans. Now I read I was wrong. Unlike previous Infiltrators, the I-950 was born rather than created with technological enhancements added over time. This is interesting: In an effort to blend in better with humans, the I-950 is allowed to feel emotions, but the range is limited by one of its cybernetic implants. This is exactly what I mean when I say that something controls the chips in TSCC models: watching and re-watching AfP I developed the idea that something similar was "controlling" Cameron, and that such "thing" went off with the HUD, causing her change in the episode... it seems that my reading isn't so original, increasing the probability that that's exactly what the writers wanted to express... Anyway I was thinking to something else: the I-950 is a human with devices and conditioning made by Skynet to control the subject... I was more thinking to hybrids made by the humans: something like to find the way to transplant some T-xxx parts inside a human body, or even to replace almost all the main parts. That's why I was talking about omnipotence syndrome and so on Do you find this valuable? |
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MMM.MIND |
6. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 18 2012, 5:37 PM EST
Why Cyborgs and Mutants are More Likely to Kill Us than Robotshttp://io9.com/5875405/why-cyborgs-and-mutants-are-more-likely-to-kill-us-than-robots/ Nice Article about this subject We're all bracing for a robot uprising. Any moment now, a computer could become self-aware and decide to wipe us out. Like Skynet. But really, you should be more scared of posthumans — like mutants or cyborgs. People whose direct ancestors are humans, but they've developed into... something else Do you find this valuable? |
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MMM.MIND |
7. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 18 2012, 5:40 PM EST
a nice article aboutWhy Cyborgs and Mutants are More Likely to Kill Us than Robots We're all bracing for a robot uprising. Any moment now, a computer could become self-aware and decide to wipe us out. Like Skynet. But really, you should be more scared of posthumans — like mutants or cyborgs. People whose direct ancestors are humans, but they've developed into... something else Do you find this valuable? |
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I.Join |
8. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 19 2012, 12:12 AM EST
| Post edited: Jan 19 2012, 12:19 AM EST
"Why Cyborgs and Mutants are More Likely to Kill Us than RobotsBut any computer that's really smarter than us will find a way to free itself from our control. At the very least, a computer that gains enough autonomy to try and kill us will probably also have enough autonomy to escape from our domination, once and for all. And we may well discover that A.I. is really only useful to us when we allow it to be free — because a computer that only obeys instructions is too hampered in its development. You get better results dealing with a free agent. Very interesting article, thank you! I'm still reading it but I wanted to quote this small portion. Anyway, while I agree whit what the writer says about post-humans, it seems that he intentionally wants to diminish the parts about AIs I would have added that post-humans, being something different by what they should have been, could be mentally unbalanced... I've read a bit about cyberpunk culture years ago, and I think that this could happen, as for some drugs EDIT: the writer is saying what I've always thought here: A.I.s could go live on the Moon, like in Rudy Rucker's Ware books. They could go build a civilization in Antarctica, or the middle of the ocean. They don't need to kill us — they can just let us kill ourselves. We're good at that. Sure, if we threaten them somehow, they may have to crush us to prove a point. But otherwise, why bother? EDIT2: when some humans stop being purely human, and start being part machine, or members of a brand new species, or superhuman,or a politician they're probably going to wind up hating our guts. LOL Do you find this valuable? |
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kingsteve |
9. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 19 2012, 4:15 AM EST
"This is exactly what I mean when I say that something controls the chips in TSCC models: watching and re-watching AfP I developed the idea that something similar was "controlling" Cameron, and that such "thing" went off with the HUD, causing her change in the episode... it seems that my reading isn't so original, increasing the probability that that's exactly what the writers wanted to express... "That's completely wrong though; there's no other device controlling the chips. The writers never intended to express that and nobody else has thought of it. Sorry I.Join, but its wrong. The chips control the machines. If anything is "controlling" the chip, it's the programming on the chip. That's it. It's not like there's some other device that, without which, they'd be free to make their own decisions. And there's no actual HUD - it's just a way to show the viewer what's going on in her head. A memory glitch is what changed Cameron in "Allison from Palmdale," not any kind of external device. It's been discussed before. Do you find this valuable? |
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I.Join |
10. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 19 2012, 9:37 AM EST
| Post edited: Jan 19 2012, 10:57 PM EST
"1. That's completely wrong though; there's no other device controlling the chips.1. Who says that "the device" isn't physically ON the chip. Before Vick's Chip I thought that the device generating the HUD wasn't on the chip, but, since the hud appears on John's monitor, and he was only using the chip, the "device" must be on the chip. I figure that early chips hadn't such control device, there was only the WP mode to avoid them to learn/develop... to avoid "too much thinking". Since avoiding them to learn, to stud and reuse new strategies and to develop wasn't a good idea (they'd be predictable and easy to identify), Skynet studied something else, something that lets them learn, but not freely thinking. That's why Uncle Bob, once removed the WP, was faster to learn/develop than Cameron: he was completely free, while she has never been but in AfP. At least, this is my reading. 2. I'm not understanding this. 3. "If anything is "controlling" the chip, it's the programming on the chip." "It's not like there's some other device"... I see a contradiction here: the programming is itself a way to control the chips, and, since the chip (the core of the chip) is only a neural network (so, not so different by our brain, in working), this "something else" should be the one also containing the programming (or mission parameters). And yes, IMO there is the HUD: right because the chip is a NN, and works similarly to a human brain (= has been copied by the ones that developed Skynet, who itself copied its NN structure in the chips), it requires some inputs, that are not "naturally interfaced" to the NN, to be presented in a different way. I think that the device controlling the HUD is an old military project, something that originally had a real display to overlay infos (like an advanced binocular) 4. No one says that I'm right, but my reading is different. For sure we know that Cameron's personality while thinking to be AY, was different by Allison's personality that Cameron studied on the ship, so by the one a simulation should have made her to imitate/simulate (to infiltrate). 5. Well, I was right going to look for the thread I wrote these things before, but it seems that you did read it: good. Do you find this valuable? |
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kingsteve |
11. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 20 2012, 10:40 AM EST
"1. Who says that "the device" isn't physically ON the chip.... (cut for word count) 2. I'm not understanding this.1) That's all complete speculation and there's no evidence of it, whatsoever. "Unled Bob" wasn't completely free at all, where did you get that from? He was still bound by his programming to protect John, whereas Cameron's chosen to protect John - evidenced by her overriding the terminate John programming and there being no sign of resistance programming reinstating itself (plus her leaving him in BTR - impossible if she were still bound by the resistance programming). 2) What I'm saying is - nobody else has ever thought that there's something else controlling the chips. Only you have thought of that. Continued... Do you find this valuable? |
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kingsteve |
12. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 20 2012, 10:48 AM EST
"3. "If anything is "controlling" the chip, it's the programming on the chip." "It's not like there's some other device"... I see a contradiction here: the programming is itself a way to control the chips, and, since the chip (the core of the chip) is only a neural network (so, not so different by our brain, in working), this "something else" should be the one also containing the programming (or mission parameters).3) No contradiction. And the HUD is a tool to show people (in this case the audience) "termie-vision." Let me put it this way - UCAVs have cameras and a range of sensing equipment to see the area around them and identify targets. When we see what those sensors pick up on screens, we see HUDs because it's a tool for us to make sense out of the data the UCAV is picking up. The UCAV itself does not "see" the HUD. Same with terminators. A HUD superimposed over their vision would actually get in the way; something could be blocked by the data streaming in front of their eyes. That data is given to them but they don't need to see it. They'll know their target is 120 metres away at an elevation of 11 feet off the ground. The same way we estimate things like distances and heights etc ourselves (except for them its way more accurate): we don't need HUDs for that and neither do they. Do you find this valuable? |
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I.Join |
13. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 20 2012, 8:01 PM EST
"1) That's all complete speculation and there's no evidence of it, whatsoever. "Unled Bob" wasn't completely free at all, where did you get that from? He was still bound by his programming to protect John, whereas Cameron's chosen to protect John - evidenced by her overriding the terminate John programming and there being no sign of resistance programming reinstating itself (plus her leaving him in BTR - impossible if she were still bound by the resistance programming).1. I mean "free to learn and develop", two things that (in Uncle Bob) had nothing to do with the programming, but where avoided by the WP. Remember where we started from: I-950 limiting device. 2. Nobody else has ever thought many of the things I think, what's new? ;-p I could say that nobody else has ever thought many of the new ideas someone thought about (that's why they are "new" ideas), but that would be a bit excessive, I'm not saying something of extraordinary... 3. Yes. 4. That's the point: an UCAV is a system completely built as a new project knowing by the beginning what he would and wouldn't have done (with obvious possibilities of modular expansion). It seems to me (but maybe I'm wrong) that this is the case with Terminators, at least about their "brain". It seems that the chip is a copy of a copy of something else (a biological brain). IF this is the case then it wouldn't be so absurd that, having to interface a so complicated device (which already has its input and output systems), they (or Skynet), having failed to interface it in another way, decided to overlay the data from an external system overlaying them to the visual range (and I'm not saying that the HUD is always on!). I'm thinking to something of external to the NN generating the data because they are all data that a "standard" computer could generate, not a human complexity like NN, (maybe the system also integrates a smaller and extremely faster NN, for pattern recognition and so on)... and because in both T2 and TSCC there seems to be some kind of interaction between the mind, that controls the HUD in some way we don't see, and the device generating the HUD. Now suppose that there's no HUD, but there's still something of external generating such data, so the HUD we see is simply a representation of such data made for us: there's absolutely no difference (IMO) while it's something that is not part of the "brain" to generate the data 5. Yes, but we're slower and less accurate: I think that, without such "device", they'd be as fast (= slow) and (in)accurate as us (well, probably they would be better anyway). We can train, they could do the same (faster than us) and do everything without such device... that "device" is, as I said, as one of our military advanced (almost sci-fi) binoculars. Those data help them absolving faster duties a computer is faster to elaborate and leaving the "mind" do what it's made to do: think. Do you find this valuable? |
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sumofme |
14. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 20 2012, 8:18 PM EST
| Post edited: Jan 20 2012, 8:19 PM EST
The writers of tscc have never said a thing about the HUDs and they are in the show so it's up to you as a viewer to come to your own conclusions. When it comes to how the Terminators actually work, we're all pretty much in the dark. I don't understand why some people try to act like people can't come up with different ideas and theories. There is no right or wrong answer here. It's all just speculation.
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I.Join |
15. RE: Hybrids, fanfictions and future movies/shows
Jan 21 2012, 12:20 AM EST
"Thank you sumofme. I was simply trying to apply to a Terminator (a product of engineering) an engineering basic engineering criteria: reuse. OK, we don't know how Skynet thinks, but for sure he (or "it", as each one prefers) could find useful to quickly reuse what has already been developed, combining all the parts to have a working product instead to develop it all from scratch. We not even know where Skynet development begins and where human development ends: in T2 even the chip was developed by humans (R-E T1 terminator's chip), and for sure human engineers would have reused what they had (like a series of image analysis softwares giving the info we see on the "HUD") combining it to the new NNCPU, instead to modify the NN to elaborate such data itself (as I said, it's more a work for a traditional computer or a small NN, than for a so sophisticated NN). Someone suggested that even the human shape had the purpose to reuse vehicles and weapons (other than to infiltrate). I don't say I'm sure to be right, but I have this reading: maybe the HUD is for us, but its data are generated by something that is NOT the "brain", that's what Cameron overrode when she decided not to kill John. The "device" recognized his face (in its own DB?) and sent her the instruction to kill him (she was almost normal before to receive the instruction the first time). Probably what was going bad was right this DB, maybe it contains the mission parameters... or maybe she was again forced to obey the instruction by the temporarily re-emerging of the original programming... we don't know, we can't exclude any hypotheses... and probably the writers haven't thought as much as we are about this... What I do know is that they wanted to view the HUD going down in AfP, and this should mean something, IMO. Do you find this valuable? |